Home Energy Retrofit Grants

My home has a 20+ year old furnace that needs to be replaced soon. I have found out the Ontario and Canada have grants available for improving the energy use of homes.
http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/index.cfm?fuseaction=conservation.homeretrofit
One needs to do an energy audit before being granted the rebate or grant. Since we already had a high-efficiency furnace, we would qualify only for the 2nd system grant of $150 if we install a high-efficiency furnace. A new furnace would cost about $4,000.
However, I noticed that one can get a grant of $3,500 if one installs a ground source heat pump. With a ground source heat pump (GSHP), heating costs go from $1,500 down to $500 per year. In addition, running it in reverse would provide air-conditioning, and with a desuperheater it will pre-heat the domestic hot water (especially in summer) for an additional 70% in domestic hot water savings. (My rental high-efficiency hot water tank is also 20+ years old.)
I am trying to find out what the ground source heat pump would cost (before the grant) to be installed in Toronto. Has anyone installed a GSHP in Toronto?

I googled 'ground source heat pump' which took me to this "NRCAN" site. No cost estimates here but I've seen/read news reports on this that the costs are around $20,000. Pipes have to be laid into the ground up to 200' deep to tap into ground source heat.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications...ing_and_Cooling_with_a_Heat_Pump_Section4.cfm

I have not installed one, but looked into the costs and got estimates anywhere from $15,000 to $23,000.

You might want to look at an air source heat pump, which costs less to maintain, and if something goes wrong with it you won't have to dig up your entire yard in order to fix it:

Check out the Acadia from Hallowell: http://www.gotohallowell.com/acadia.html

I think it may be the next system I'm getting. (I want to remove myself from the forecasted high prices of natural gas)

Gosh. Those systems require about twenty years to recoup their installation costs - to say nothing of your ongoing heating/cooling expenses, even at a reduced rate.

Urban Shocker said:

Gosh. Those systems require about twenty years to recoup their installation costs - to say nothing of your ongoing heating/cooling expenses, even at a reduced rate.

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If Natural Gas prices continue to climb, I assure you, the time taken to recoup the installation costs are going to be cut in half.

Even when properly installed, the pipes for the antifreeze system may fail after 25 years according to the Natural Resources website.

Urban Shocker said:

Even when properly installed, the pipes for the antifreeze system may fail after 25 years according to the Natural Resources website.

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Well, that's why I mentioned that the Air Source Heat Pump from Hallowell might be a better option.

Has anyone installed a GSHP in Toronto?

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I have been involved in the geoexchange industry for several years, and am CGC certified.

One needs to do an energy audit before being granted the rebate or grant.

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An energy audit needs to be done regardless of grants, as a key element of installing a geoexchange system is an accurate heat loss BTU. Part of the audit includes suggesting possible ways of reducing heat losses through improvements to windows, insulation, etc.

I am trying to find out what the ground source heat pump would cost (before the grant) to be installed in Toronto.

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First, you need to size the system properly. Then, you need to determine which loop type is the most cost-efficient to install based on site limitations/conditions. If it is to be forced-air, your ducting may need to be modified to accept the higher air flow of a geo furnace blower.

Pipes have to be laid into the ground up to 200' deep to tap into ground source heat.

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A little misleading....vertical loops are used only when it is necessary, and can be of any depth (we regularily drill 400 foot bore holes). The depth doesn't really have to do with getting to the heat source, which is available at about only 3 metres under the surface. It is actually solar heat we are tapping into...not heat generated from the earths core.

You might want to look at an air source heat pump, which costs less to maintain, and if something goes wrong with it you won't have to dig up your entire yard in order to fix it

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Sorry, but an air-to-air heat pump is simply not a very cost-efficient option for heating, as it makes for poor heat extraction when you need it most. You would either need a massive heat pump to extract the required heat from the cold air (which would cost to much in capital and operating costs), or be on back-up heat most of the time. Neither is good, which is why you almost never see them used for that purpose.

A properly designed and installed ground loop is essentially maintainence-free...there isn't anything to go wrong. Any adjustments to the fluid, if required, is done through ports located in the mechanicals in your house.

Even when properly installed, the pipes for the antifreeze system may fail after 25 years according to the Natural Resources website.

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Hmmm...good quality poly pipe should not degrade or fail...it's pretty bullet-proof. Unless it is mechanically wrecked, a well designed, installed loop of quality materials will essentially last....indefinetely.

Gosh. Those systems require about twenty years to recoup their installation costs - to say nothing of your ongoing heating/cooling expenses, even at a reduced rate.

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It depends on what it is replacing, and the type of system you need to install (and what price you get from your contractor of course), but the average savings when considering heating, cooling and hot water needs, is generally less than ten, and 3-5 years is quite common. And that's based on todays fuel and electricity costs...something tells me they won't be going down in the future.

And you could look at it this way...depending on what your monthly operating savings are, it could actually pay for itself right from the begining...or possibly even be in a positive cash-flow situation...if you simply finance it with your energy savings.

This is of course on top of whatever equity the system has added to the value of your property....that could pay for the system all by itself.

There are other benefits beyond just financial as well...it is a much more comfortable system to live with.

...It provides a much more even heat distribution, and doesn't dehumidify your house the way other sources do.

...There are no unsightly and noisy units sitting outside your house.

...Most people like the idea that they are using the free energy trapped in the property they already own...and unlike fuel and electricy, it will remain free for as long as they own it.

...Of course, there is the whole green aspect of it, which seems to be all the rage these days. Do your part for the planet...AND save money in the process. What can be better than that?

freshcutgrass said:

Sorry, but an air-to-air heat pump is simply not a very cost-efficient option for heating, as it makes for poor heat extraction when you need it most. You would either need a massive heat pump to extract the required heat from the cold air (which would cost to much in capital and operating costs), or be on back-up heat most of the time. Neither is good, which is why you almost never see them used for that purpose.

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Ah, yes, an ordinary Air-Source Heat Pump isn't, but this one is different:

http://www.gotohallowell.com/acadia.html

BTW, I was looking at Geothermal before I found the Acadia.

But what would be the rough cost of installing a Geothermal system on a 3200 sq feet home on a 50 x 150 lot in south Etobicoke?

Ah, yes, an ordinary Air-Source Heat Pump isn't, but this one is different:

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No, it's just a low-temp air-source hp.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how low the temps are that you design the hp to work at, the ambient air isn't going to contain any more latent heat than it ever did. So you're either going to spend more money on energy trying to get at it, or run a back-up heater to suppliment it (most likely both).

I'm not saying it won't heat your house...it just will not do it as efficiently as a gshp will. A ground loop is just a much better heat source, as well as a heat sink....the air can't compare. The ground source will have less operating costs...less maintainance costs, and longer life span.

And have you seen the price of this thing....15 grand!!

Sorry, but I would stick with tried-and-true technology, with superior efficiency, and at that price, considering the prov and federal grants for ground source, the captial outlay isn't all that different.

But what would be the rough cost of installing a Geothermal system on a 3200 sq feet home on a 50 x 150 lot in south Etobicoke?

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That would depend on a few things...what's the maximum load your house requires? (square footage isn't a very good indicator of heat loss). How much of that 7500 sqft lot is open and accessable? Drilling is a lot more expensive than trenching.

One thing I noticed about the Acadia...it's maximum heating capacity would probably be too small for a house your size.

If you're looking to make your home more energy efficient, the Ontario Ministry of Energy can help.

The Government of Ontario Home Energy Retrofit program provides homeowners with grants up to a maximum of $5,000 to help cover the costs of installing energy-efficient improvements in their home. This is in addition the $5,000 of grants available through the federal government's NRCan ecoEnergy Retrofit program.

Similar to the federal program, these grants apply to a variety of energy-reducing tactics, from installing a new solar-powered hot water system to upgrading your old furnace or air conditioner.

Only homes that have received an energy efficiency audit by an NRCan-licensed energy advisor are eligible for grants. The total grant amount is based on the number of recommended retrofits that have been completed and the total energy savings experienced by each retrofit.