Last week we featured the first part of our interview with Paul Golini of Empire Communities. We discussed his background and the history of Empire Communities, their transition into highrise, as well as focusing on O2 Maisonettes and Rain Condos. Today we continue talking about Eau du Soleil, his role at BILD, as well as aspects of affordability and sustainability in construction. 

Given the size of the terraces in Eau du Soleil, are they coupled with slightly larger suites in any cases? What kind of suites are associated with the terraces in the lower half of the building?

The terraces are a function of the architecture, not necessarily coupled with larger suites. That's going to be an interesting mix. We also have about 24 urban garden plots. Because we have this large podium, we ended up putting in these garden plots that we're including in the upper penthouses. If you buy a penthouse, we're including an urban farm plot, so you can plant your tomatoes, and your herbs, etc. They will be located on one of the podium sections.

Is it visible in the renderings that we've seen so far?

Probably not detailed yet, but that's coming.

Eau du Soleil condos in Etobicoke's Humber Bay Shores, image courtesy of Empire Communities

The only landscaped space we've seen so far is the top of the podium from the west side looking at the space between the two towers and the sweeping sections of the terraces.

That's amenity space, but the urban plots are going to be interesting how they're perceived.

What kind of amenities are people expecting to have in those buildings?

Because of the scale of the building, we've committed to a professionally designed and outfitted fitness centre, pool, indoor track. We're really going all out with respect to the wet and dry amenities, all the studios. In essence we're creating a mini-town. There are towns in Italy that are smaller than some of these projects that we see around town. The amenities we're still working on coming up with the designs. We will have wine storage rooms, cigar storage rooms, we're trying for something different. Entertainment related amenities in terms of kitchens and dining rooms, party rooms, things like that.

Are we expecting retail presence around the base of the building?

Yes, definitely. We haven't committed yet to any particular retailer, but that area is starving for retail. We have so many units there, we know that there's a need to bring some of the right retailers that homeowners desire. There is some of the big box grocery stores that are being put in some of the buildings, so we plan and would love to see come cafes, and anything that will help make that area a destination and allow for people to enjoy that boardwalk. You want people walking up and down that area of the lake shore.

Regarding Rain, how do you find highrise development differs between Oakville and Toronto?

Oakville in particular has been a challenge just because there hasn't been a lot of highrise lately. From a planning and approvals perspective, we've had some issues with some of the government imposed costs like parkland dedication. They're not as accepting as Toronto on how calculations are made when it comes to highrise. We're trying to get some intensification to that area of Oakville which desperately needs it. We're near the GO Station, near the expressway. We've had some challenges from an approvals perspective - getting height and density - but in the end we got all of our approvals. From a market perspective, it's new for Oakville. There's an education process for getting people who are coming out of their bigger of their older homes to accept the condo lifestyle. Obviously some developers have had some great success right on the lake, and we're just up from the lake so it's a different sell. We are selling lifestyle, amenities and that whole condo experience, so there is an education process there. The market is not used to condos as areas in the downtown core where condos have been there for years and it's just second nature.

Assuming you're looking primarily at end users for that area?

Yes we've had investors as well, but a lot of them are local. They're coming from Burlington and Mississauga. They understand Oakville and can appreciate the value of home ownership there, especially coming out of a single family home with some of the resale prices. We're at least providing that more affordable option for someone who's downsizing or someone who's looking for their first home.

You mentioned some cases with clients asking for slightly larger suites. What kind of mix of suites are people looking at in Rain vs Toronto projects?

That's been the biggest phenomenon. We've had people gravitate from an investment perspective to the typical 700/800 sq ft units, but we've also had this demand for units that are bigger than our largest which is around 1050 sq ft. That's what we're looking at accommodating now.

Rain condos in Oakville, image courtesy of Empire Communities

You've mentioned that there are difficulties in building high rise in the 905 area. Tell us about some of the obstacles, and how do you think governments or developers can overcome those in the future?

The cost of construction is typically the same whether you're building in the 416 or the 905. The biggest two factors are land and government imposed fees. There's only so low you can go with land, so a big factor becomes your development charges, whether they are the regional or municipal ones, together with parkland dedication. Some of the 905 municipalities are just learning to deal with the highrise form of development, and some of the municipalities like Vaughan, Richmond Hill, and Markham have been quick studies. They're getting that there is demand for highrise in their cities, and have been quick to react and adapt to accommodate the development process including some of their fees. The biggest obstacles have been the fees as well as the development process that some of the municipalities have not been familiar with but are quickly learning that highrise are here to stay in the 905 as well.

Tell us about your role at BILD.

[BILD is the Building Industry and Land Development Association of the Greater Toronto Area.]

I guess it was a natural fit for me to get involved on the board of directors years ago because of my passion for the industry. Then from there I worked my way up to chair of BILD, and I'm into my second year of my two year term. It's been busy and challenging, but very rewarding. As you guys know this is an amazing industry with some great characters, a great city. Toronto is lucky, whether you call it luck or planning, or maybe it's just the stage of where we are as a city and a region in terms of maturity. We are going through our growth spurt, our adolescent phase as a city, so it's a great place to be when it comes to the building industry and land development and business. BILD's given me the opportunity to meet all the different stakeholders that form our industry, not only developers and builders, but the architects, the government and municipal stakeholders. It allows you to get a well grounded perspective of the industry.

You're known for championing green building practices. You sit on the Green Committee for BILD and LEED. Tell us about some of the practices you have adopted, and how have they impacted both construction and marketing.

Well we were introduced to the Energy Star program years ago in our lowrise and it was an opportunity to learn how we build our standard home. What Energy Star did was allow us to break down the process and allow us to come up with a new process of how we build a house. The saying is that we've been building homes the same way that we have for many years, and the mandate of bringing green building practices into our company has allowed us to look at how we build a home and make improvements which result typically not only in energy efficient improvements, but also in quality control and general quality improvements. Green is about changing the way we do things, and in the end offering the home buyer not only the benefits of comfort and air quality. Also in these interesting times when we're dealing with hydro rates changing and the cost of operating our homes is really something that we don't have a handle on – we're not sure where costs are going, but they're definitely going up – the green sales aspect for the consumer – being able to save money on their operating costs – is also a great part of the green story. It's definitely changed our culture and our company.

Can you mention any specifics of those aspects, maybe with respect to highrise construction? What are some people seeing now that they were maybe not seeing 5 or 10 years ago?

In highrise construction we've seen the use of greener products, whether they be products that incorporate some sort of recycled content, low VOC paints being used. From a labelling perspective we've seen many builders adopt the LEED labelling standard in their building practices. Others have opted not to invest in the administrative costs of LEED, but incorporate a lot of the features and requirements that LEED has on their lists without the label, whether it's improvements in mechanical systems, to the windows, ventilation system, providing for bicycle storage, making accommodations for Zipcars… there are all sorts of things that highrise developers are doing.

Given the relatively high administrative costs for LEED, do you find it a worthwhile investment? Do you see benefits from it? You mentioned some builders going about green construction without the formal recognition.

I think it's a matter of whether you're going to incorporate LEED into all your highrise projects, like some developers like Minto and Tridel have done, and it may make sense there, but the one-off LEED projects are too costly or the returns may not be there. It's being demanded by some of the regulators from a municipal perspective, but the end user and consumer is not 100% sure what LEED means. They know it's better which is great, they know it's green, but do they know what's behind it? I think we're still a few years away from having a consumer that fully understands what is going into the green features, notwithstanding the fact that they want it but maybe don't want to pay for it.

If a consumer does come to you and try to articulate what kind of green features they are looking for, what kind of things do they typically mention if they do at all?

They are familiar with the Energy Star because as a label – it's one of the more recognized brands in North America so they see it on their electronics or kitchen appliances – so they know it means savings of some kind. Typically the male consumer who may be more technologically savvy may know what a higher efficiency furnace might do for their home, or about a heat recovery ventilator (HRV) in highrise and what it actually does. Usually the female who has a great influence in the new home buying experience, is looking for perhaps green features within the finishing materials of the home.

Tell us about Empire's three pillars of affordability, sustainability, and prosperity. How does the company put those into practice?

That's a great question. Affordability has been a key factor in driving our business. From our single family and lowrise perspective, we've always made an effort to provide a product that is easily accessible for first time homebuyers. In all our markets we have a large span of product from townhomes, to singles, and larger singles, but we always make sure that we have townhomes because the first time homebuyer for years has been a large player in the new home market. We've always been committed to making sure that we have quality product for the first time buyer. Affordability is key. Having that first time buyer enter the market allows that buyer to stay in that townhome or that small first time condo and then move up, and that's how you create move-up buyers. We know that there is still a lot of people renting, the stats are very clear that there is still a large part of the population that is renting and maybe just needs to find the right affordable product to make that first step into home ownership.

Sustainability has been part of what we do. We are trying to integrate it into the way we operate so that's pretty clear. Prosperity was really about how our industry creates jobs, in that we are contributing to the communities that we are working in. That's also been a big part of my mandate at BILD to educate the public on what the development industry is all about. There's always been a stereotype about the development business, and the fact is that we have a dynamic, professional industry, with people that are passionate and dedicated that form part of this industry. In the end we do give a lot back to the communities whether it's through charitable donations, partnerships, whether it's contributing to the parks, schools, community centres, highrise or lowrise, there is a lot that our industry gives back and I think we need to do a better job of celebrating those contributions and those successes.

You mentioned earlier about the different timelines between building a small project vs a master-planned community, and how building relationships are important. How important are they to you as Empire, and in what ways do you try to build those relationships with local communities?

For example we've been in Brantford developing a master-planned community called Windfield - over 2,500 homes, over 1,500 people living in the community now so we have another fair bit to go - but we made a commitment to partner with the local high schools, with the OYAP program to bring high school students for apprenticeships within the construction industry and help build a house. We work with schools, trade apprenticeships, and the local community from that perspective. We work with the local hospitals and typically all the charities. We've done a Habitat build out in Brantford, so you have get involved in the local chamber of commerce, in the Rotary clubs. You need to be committed to that community so that you're not just an outsider coming in, building a house, and walking away.

Paul Golini talks with interviewer Dumitru Onceanu, image by Edward Skira.

A more personal question. What is your favourite community to build in?

I lived in Toronto all my life, and I'm a downtown person. I love the vibrancy of the city and I love where it's going so I'm a big fan of the Annex. I personally grew up in the Annex, went to U of T. I love the fact that we're building a lot of product now, from an industry perspective where people can actually live, work, and play and not necessarily need a car. Toronto is unique, and one of its strengths is its strong neighbourhoods, so finding a way to connect the neighbourhoods is a challenge and that leads into a whole transit discussion. That definitely I see as one of the biggest challenges we have as an industry.

UrbanToronto would like to thank Paul Golini for sitting down to talk with us.